steve i replied on kellys post about club lakes with hydrilla .. i dont want to be missleading when i said Leonard Clymer is full of hydrilla, so i want to ask you.. would you say lakes like Leonard or Leesburg or even Cody Ranch lakes have hydrilla, or coontail in them .. i usually call most of it hydrilla,, but i may be miscalling it.. and if so , what is the major distinction?

I always thought it was Eurasian Milfoil.  I guess I picked that up from aquarium stores when I was very young. So maybe the common name is coontail. 

I thought Hydrilla had thicker appearance on its leaves and a brighter green in appearance. 

Never took a course on aquatic plants but maybe I'll start  to investigate and see if TPWD gives a course at the freshwater fishery in Athens.

Phillip,

95% of the time members mistake Hydrilla for Coontail. Most of our lakes have coontail and not hydrilla. Hydrilla is easier to fish than coontail. The only lake that comes to mind that has hydrilla is San Saba. However, it is primarily covered in Coontail and Bushy Pond Weed AKA Sourthern Niad. However, there is also Hydrilla, American Pond Weed and probably Chara. As a general rule a lake with about 10% to 20% covered in aquatic vegetation is considered ideal. This amount allows the predator fish (bass) to feed efficiently. When lakes are void of vegetation the forage fish have few places to hide and there is a gap in the food chain as there are not as many insects, invertebrates, crustaceans that live in the vegetation. When a lake is covered in vegetation bass cannot feed as efficiently, and the vegetation sucks all the nutrients out of the water; making the plankton limited. Plankton is what feeds fry of all kinds. As you can see it all works together. If you are curious to know what it costs to treat aquatic vegatation it ranges wildly. Whole lake treatments that will last for a few years will costs approx $500 per surface acre. So, a 20 acre lake costs about $10,000. The cost to spot treat an acre here and an acre there is about $150 to $200 an acre and usually needs to be applied 1 to 3 times a year. These costs are chemical costs only. You then have the labor and equipment to apply the aquatic herbicide.

Bob, Longbranch had Eurasian Millfoil. The dominant plant in Laneville is Variable Leaf Millfoil.

The most common plants in our club lakes are;

1) Coontail

2) Bushy Pondweed/Southern Niad

3) Filamentous Algea

4) Primrose

Here is a great website for those interested in learning more about aquatic vegetation.

http://aquaplant.tamu.edu/

I like fishing in the grass except primrose. I love twitching that worm to gently fall tempting those aggressive Bass.   I guess the milfoil ID is a carryover from my youth listening to the owner at the tropical fish store.

so i understand, places like leonard, or leesburg, or timber lake , the vegetation is primarilly coontail?? is this correct?  also i am a firm believer that vegetation is highly important in a small pond or a big lake,, i have lived through the best of times on lake fork in its beginnings catching 40-50 nice fish in the vegitation each day, and with all the beautiful vegitation, and water color,  to when in 1999 when lake fork went through both a fish kill and the vegetation dying off, and for years afterwards lake fork stuggling to be the lake it was.. i still dont think its the lake it was, even though some areas have vegitation coming back.. in the early days on fork the word was "bass in the grass" ..  the reason i say all this is it makes me wonder why then do people put grass carp in or chemicals to kill something that is so vital??  is it to just control , or to get rid of ??  because i see some of our club lakes that are totally devoid of any vegitation, and then you see lakes like 10/10 or timber that thrive because of the vegitation.. just being curious and interested in your take on why would one want their pond devoid of vegitation... as you know i like picking you brain,, but i have always believed that if you wanna learn, then ask the question.. thanks

Originally Posted by Phillip D. Chapin

so i understand, places like leonard, or leesburg, or timber lake , the vegetation is primarilly coontail?? is this correct?  also i am a firm believer that vegetation is highly important in a small pond or a big lake,, i have lived through the best of times on lake fork in its beginnings catching 40-50 nice fish in the vegitation each day, and with all the beautiful vegitation, and water color,  to when in 1999 when lake fork went through both a fish kill and the vegetation dying off, and for years afterwards lake fork stuggling to be the lake it was.. i still dont think its the lake it was, even though some areas have vegitation coming back.. in the early days on fork the word was "bass in the grass" ..  the reason i say all this is it makes me wonder why then do people put grass carp in or chemicals to kill something that is so vital??  is it to just control , or to get rid of ??  because i see some of our club lakes that are totally devoid of any vegitation, and then you see lakes like 10/10 or timber that thrive because of the vegitation.. just being curious and interested in your take on why would one want their pond devoid of vegitation... as you know i like picking you brain,, but i have always believed that if you wanna learn, then ask the question.. thanks

Grass carp are added to control vegetation, with the hope of keeping coverage in the 10-20% range that Steve mentioned. Most private lakes have problems with vegetation becoming more prevalent than one would desire, and very few naturally suffer from too little vegetation. This is why grass carp have become so popular. Like anything, adding grass carp is a delicate balance. Too many can devoid a lake of vegetation, as you mentioned Phillip, but grass carp do a great job of managing vegetation to keep it at the ideal amount when they are stocked in the proper densities.

The dominant plant is Leonard Clymer and Sulphur Bluff Timber lake is Coontail. I don't recall what it is in Leesburg. Most lakes have many types of aquatic vegetation, not just one or two. However, the ones I mentioned in the previous post are the most dominant in our lakes.

In order for vegetation to grow in needs 3 things:

1) Light

2) Water temperature

3) Nutrients

If you remove any of the 3; the plants will not grow, We have several lakes where there is a mechanical issue (wind, cows, large catfish or carp stirring up the water) that causes muddy (turbid) water. This turbidity removes sunlight which keeps the water clarity at 12 inches or below, which virtually eliminates all or most aquatic vegetation. For example, Bowie has a lot of shallow water on the north end of the lake. 1/3 of the lake is 1-3 feet and the lake is positioned directly north/south. The wind stirs up all the shallow, water which causes turbidity. The turbidity reduces sunlight.  Consequently we have little to no vegetation. The same could be said for Fairfield Smith Ranch where the cattle spent an enormous amount of time in the water; which causes it to be stirred up, reducing the water clarity to 12 inches.

You asked about the following:

"the reason i say all this is it makes me wonder why then do people put grass carp in or chemicals to kill something that is so vital??  is it to just control , or to get rid of ??  because i see some of our club lakes that are totally devoid of any vegetation, and then you see lakes like 10/10 or timber that thrive because of the vegetation.. just being curious and interested in your take on why would one want their pond devoid of vegetation... as you know i like picking you brain,, but i have always believed that if you wanna learn, then ask the question."

Here is the answer:

You treat vegetation not to eliminate it, but to reduce it. You are correct, if you completely eliminate it, you have done harm. If you reduce it to 10% to 20% you have done well. See my answer in the previous post to answer why too much vegetation is bad. It is a delicate balance and very difficult and very expensive to achieve. So, unless you have a giant budget and have the time to stay on top of it, most lakes/ponds are what they are unless you drain them, rework the depths to keep as little water as possible at 4 feet or less.Two good examples of lakes with great vegeation are Cleburne and Gilmer. Both lakes have a minimum of shallow water. The banks drop of sharply. They go from 1 foot to 5 feet or deeper rather quickly. If you have a lake with a bulk of its water 4 feet or less you will be fighting aquatic vegetation.

thanks steve for taking the time to let me pick your brain .. i ask, i learn,, even an old man like me,, haha